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Post by Precinct Omega on Jan 16, 2017 17:00:46 GMT
170216-hw-weirdhorizons.pdf (217.02 KB) 19 Feb 2017 This version of Weird Horizons has been updated with the notes and feedback from the alpha-test version. This is now officially the "beta" version. This will remain extant for a couple of months because I'm hoping for some cool new minis to be forthcoming from Gregster's Lab that I may be able to get hold of and paint up to illustrate this article. Otherwise, it'll all be Spartan Games stuff. Which is fine, but I'd rather give the little guy some love, too. Regards, R.
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Post by charax on Jan 16, 2017 21:23:29 GMT
OK, so some quick thoughts (I'm always ruining your fun!)
- Flammenwerfer has no additional/special effects Vs Dug In units or units in buildings?
- Shouldn't the Dark Priest's summoned creatures have rules from BioWar? or at least optional choices from BioWar?
- As an AIC is taken instead of a CHQ, and Weird Command options are taken by CHQs, you can't have Weird AI Commanders, correct? (and therefore, no Weird options in a force led by an AIC, seems arbitrarily restrictive - I'd love to have Weird Robots (Weird Science!)
Possible solution: An AIC may replace each of the stat boosts it bestows on a Robot it inhabits with a Weird Command option instead
Possible solution 2: An AIC may choose to secrifice 1 point of its A value (not the A value of the host) for each Weird Command option
- Alphas "enjoy(s) all of the normal advantages of a CHQ - Command Resources, Guide Fire, Chain of Command etc " - is the option to exchange these for a Weird Command option "One of the benefits of a CHQ"?
- do summoned units count towards Momentum values at all?
- Mechatentacles don't have a cost, not even a cost of 0
- Non-Mecha Kaiju can't have Weird Upgrades (Biowar states "Instead of Upgrades, Kaiju have Mutations")
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Post by Precinct Omega on Jan 17, 2017 15:39:08 GMT
- Flammenwerfer has no additional/special effects Vs Dug In units or units in buildings?
Ooh, good idea!
- Shouldn't the Dark Priest's summoned creatures have rules from BioWar? or at least optional choices from BioWar?
I'm cautious about having a supplement have rules that require buyers to have already bought another supplement. Thoughts?
- As an AIC is taken instead of a CHQ, and Weird Command options are taken by CHQs, you can't have Weird AI Commanders, correct? (and therefore, no Weird options in a force led by an AIC, seems arbitrarily restrictive - I'd love to have Weird Robots (Weird Science!)
Currently, yes. I like your thinking, though.
- Alphas "enjoy(s) all of the normal advantages of a CHQ - Command Resources, Guide Fire, Chain of Command etc " - is the option to exchange these for a Weird Command option "One of the benefits of a CHQ"?
Good question. Not intended to be the case, but I'd welcome opinions.
- do summoned units count towards Momentum values at all?
Definitely. I'll make that clear.
- Mechatentacles don't have a cost, not even a cost of 0
Oops. Cost is 1.
- Non-Mecha Kaiju can't have Weird Upgrades (Biowar states "Instead of Upgrades, Kaiju have Mutations")
Damn right they can't. But Mechakaiju can. Is that not sufficiently weird for you?
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Post by charax on Jan 17, 2017 20:53:46 GMT
I like Synergy (Can you tell??) I wouldn't have ALL the Dark Priest's summoning require another supplement, but I don't see anything wrong with owning more supplements unlocking additional options, in fact that might encourage people to buy more of them!
Weird Alphas might be fun, I'm not sure how they'd work from a gameplay perspective (how would a weird hivemind work??) but I think there should be either options for taking Weird choices without a Weird Commanders (the same way you can have Robots without an AIC, or Gribblies without an Alpha/Hivemind) or options to allow those combinations. How cool does a Weird Mind sound? deploying Tesla Robots or Skinwalker Drones (Flammenwerfer Drones are a free upgrade...) A Dark Priest Mind flitting around the battlefield, summoning units within 6" of whichever unit it inhabits that turn (justified as some form of mobile factory or nanocloud...)
Or, on the more Eldritch end of the scale, a Monstrosity Manifest Hivemind (which gains Guide Fire and Chain of Command) taking Dark Priest, summoning more creatures from the depths of space to infest the world!
Not the most intuitive options, but cool story hooks nonetheless, and I wouldn't arbitrarily veto their existence.
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Post by kandinsky60 on Jan 18, 2017 18:04:04 GMT
With regards to the 'Weird Command' upgrades, in a force with a mech as a chq, can they never use command resources?
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Post by Precinct Omega on Jan 18, 2017 20:24:14 GMT
Correct. CHQ mechs don't get Command Resources. That's the pay off with taking a conventional CHQ.
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Post by Precinct Omega on Jan 18, 2017 20:27:54 GMT
I like Synergy (Can you tell??) I wouldn't have ALL the Dark Priest's summoning require another supplement, but I don't see anything wrong with owning more supplements unlocking additional options, in fact that might encourage people to buy more of them! Weird Alphas might be fun, I'm not sure how they'd work from a gameplay perspective (how would a weird hivemind work??) but I think there should be either options for taking Weird choices without a Weird Commanders (the same way you can have Robots without an AIC, or Gribblies without an Alpha/Hivemind) or options to allow those combinations. How cool does a Weird Mind sound? deploying Tesla Robots or Skinwalker Drones (Flammenwerfer Drones are a free upgrade...) A Dark Priest Mind flitting around the battlefield, summoning units within 6" of whichever unit it inhabits that turn (justified as some form of mobile factory or nanocloud...) Or, on the more Eldritch end of the scale, a Monstrosity Manifest Hivemind (which gains Guide Fire and Chain of Command) taking Dark Priest, summoning more creatures from the depths of space to infest the world! Not the most intuitive options, but cool story hooks nonetheless, and I wouldn't arbitrarily veto their existence. I hear what you say, and some of those *do* sound cool. I think it's very reasonable that different supplements should work in synergy, so I see no reason why you couldn't have tesla robots or flammenwerfer drones. You don't *have* to take a weird command to be able to take weird upgrades, I'd point out (or if I said you did, I didn't mean it!). So they are as freely available as any other upgrade as long as you have the Command Resources to pay for them (so, yes, any elements can be upgraded to flammenwerfer drones (how cool do they sound?). |
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Post by charax on Jan 18, 2017 21:33:58 GMT
Unfortunately, you actually kinda do need Weird Command to take Weird Upgrades:
"The following upgrades may be taken by any force with a CHQ with at least one weird command." (Emphasis mine)
AIC aren't CHQ, so don't qualify ("You may elect to take an AI Command (AIC) in lieu of a CH")
Alphas and Hiveminds aren't CHQ, so don't qualify (well, they're a bit tricky, they're not explicitly stated as not being CHQ, but they have conditions that remove some or all of the command benefits)
and yes, Flammenwerfer drones are awesome, I will be having some (and that's not even getting into superheavy options. Flammenwerfer Superguns? eep!)
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Post by Precinct Omega on Jan 21, 2017 20:36:03 GMT
Ah, yes. I remember writing that, now. I think that can probably come out in the final version...
R.
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Post by imperator on Jan 22, 2017 8:54:54 GMT
Repeating here what I wrote on the FB page:
Here are some suggestions of additions to Weird War:
-Zone protecting "forcefield" or (antimissile laser) that would be carried by a unit but able to protect several units in a given diameter.
Maybe by giving the ability of a unit to use it's A value to counter an attack against a nearby unit, using the firing rules ?
-Rules for fixed defence installations.
Could be a unit with a total amount of points to spread depending on it's P cost, but with the M at 0.
-Mobile Fortress (that is: some sort of superheavy cavalry or slow airship with no weapons in itself but the ability to garrison units. Could even be an airplane carrier ?)
-Stealthy units, especially infantry
-Super-heavy artillery was already mentioned, I second it.
-Hijacking/brainwashing/hacking stealing units (not sure I really would like to face that on a battlefield... but why not ?)
The following suggestions are not Weird War specific. Could be an add-on to regular Horizon War (apologies in advance if there are often mentioned topics)
-Still sadly missing so far: Rules for navy ! Including submarines ! Even if it's nearly a game in itself, like what was done for the air-fight. A game of futuristic naval combat would be amazing !
I think treating them like heavy and superheavy units would be fine, with maybe a little amount of added inertia rules, like the airplane? No idea how to do justice for the submarines, though.
-Actually surprised it doesn't exist yet: Tactical nuclear weapons.
Yes, that was my entry in the Horizon Writing Challenge, but feel free to steal it or create a better one. (Not specifically for Weird Wars either)
-If Weird War open the Pandora's box of introducing new types of weapons, why not start with more ordinary specialisations, like anti-armor, anti-infantry or anti-air? (While still keeping the "regular, well rounded armament" option available).
It could give way to some little "rock-paper-scissor" strategies.
-To create armies, even units of the same type, with distinct flavour, like difference in level or types of technology (say.. Terminator vs Mad Max, Orks vs Imperium...), it could be possible to use alternative types of F,M,A or D values. For example, units which are more effective in closer range or vice-versa... Or that would be easier to repair but less resilient... and so on.
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Post by Precinct Omega on Jan 27, 2017 9:33:45 GMT
OK, I'm looking at updating this to beta format today. I have some points to feed back form ideas raised so far:
1. Weird upgrades will be available to any element normally able to access upgrades in the main rulebook. So most BioWar elements will be excluded, but mechakaiju can still have flamethrower breath. I've also re-drafted to accommodate aircraft with weird upgrades, too.
2. Flammenwerfers aren't getting any special advantages against dug in elements or elements in buildings - because they already have one! Flammenwerfers and tesla cannons only have to measure the range (not effective) to targets in LOS. Cover and dug in status has no effect on either weapon. But I will make this more explicit.
3. I've dropped the heavy infantry option for Dark Priests and replaced it with a gribbly option. This way, even people without the BioWar supplement will still have a choice of two things to call upon.
4. Forcefields are cool. Not sure how I'll fit them in, yet, but I feel like they fit in a weird war setting, so that's fine by me.
5. Stealthy units sound great, but I'm not sure how to fit them into Horizon Wars in a way that's sufficiently distinct from the existing rules. I've never had the impression that anyone really likes the "Stealth" upgrade for mechs. Suggestions are welcomed, but for now, no.
6. Superheavy vehicles have their own supplement. I will review the addition of superheavy artillery and other things when I return to that in the future, but tbh you can already do it by doing a superheavy mech with the indirect fire upgrade and a high F value. Similar with the mobile fortress.
7. Don't hold your breath for naval rules. The options for minis are limited, and this supplement notwithstanding, I do try to keep at least one eye on the feasible and naval warfare in the near future, even at 2mm, is primarily played out over such vast distances (over the horizon) that it would be a tedious experience to replicate and not really have any immediate bearing on land warfare. If I do it, it will be as a completely separate game. But I'd need someone to be making miniatures for modern and near-future naval vessels in a suitable scale, first.
8. Not a fan of tac nukes - although I'm having some problems with the Horizon Writing entries that I'll have to come back to very soon so we can finish that off and clear up some winners. I'm open to persuasion.
9. More weapon-type options is something I'm considering and you can think of Weird Horizons as dipping a toe in that water to see what people think. No promises. It's not high on my list of writing jobs. But the trend in game design, these days, seems to be towards great complexity. Having the complexity in supplements gives me some control over it.
10. Modifying the core rules to reflect armies from specific settings is something I'd be keen for others to take a stab at. It's too niche for it to present me a decent return on the investment of my time into such rules, but I can definitely see that people would like it. So if people have ideas along these lines, I'd encourage them to put them in writing and share them. If they're good and popular, I'd be happy to give them an official seal of approval.
R.
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